MSN deliberately breaks Opera's browser, claims company

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MSN deliberately breaks Opera's browser, claims company

Post by fuuucckkers »

From http://www.theregister.co.uk
By John Lettice
Posted: 06/02/2003 at 14:52 GMT


Opera Software has accused Microsoft of deliberately engineering the MSN home page in order to make it look as if the Opera browser has a serious flaw in it. And the Norwegian company has published the results of an investigation which it says proves this.

Although Opera is convinced it has been deliberately targeted, it seems at least possible that the problem could be put down to some strangely coincidental finger trouble. But if that's the case, Opera has explained how simple it would be to fix it, and one therefore presumes Microsoft will give the matter its immediate attention.

Opera's techies downloaded the page using wget, in three different formats, identifying as Opera 7, MSIE and Netscape 7.01. The files sent to each browser are different, which is not necessarily suspicious, and the one sent to Opera7 has less content and is bigger than the one sent to IE. But that is not necessarily suspicious either.

Where it does get suspicious is when you look at the style sheets MSN sends to the browsers. The culprit, says Opera, is a 30 pixel value set on the margin property in the Opera style sheet. This instructs Opera to move list elements 30 pixels to the left of the parent, which means content moves off the side of its container, which means it looks like Opera is broken.

Opera tried to test whether or not this was deliberate by changing identification to the non-existent browser Oprah. This returns the IE style sheet, which works perfectly well in Opera. In Opera's view MSN is therefore looking specifically for "Opera" in the User-Agent string and sending it a broken style sheet. That, of course, could still be a mistake, as it's perfectly logical to send IE as the default if the browser can't be identified. But as there was no need for MSN to design an Opera-specific style sheet in the first place, one wonders... ®

* The Reg, incidentally, is regularly baffled by being unable to find stuff on Microsoft TechNet using Opera, because yet again we've forgotten that for some bizarre reason, lots of results from there in IE can equal no results at all in Opera. We've no idea whether this is a plot or not, either. Or indeed whether somebody might have fixed it by now.

Now open for discussion! :)
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Post by Michael »

Doesn't surprise me one bit. A trick like that is exactly the sort of thing Microsoft would do.
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Post by Timelessblur »

Sounds like something Microsoft would do but then again there is no code in there that is targeting Oprea it self. Oprea is getting the info in IE format which in it self it logic. I do not think that website should be force to format there web pages in to ever browers formates instead the broswer should be program to read the way the pages are be sent out.
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Post by fuuucckkers »

Timelessblur wrote:Sounds like something Microsoft would do but then again there is no code in there that is targeting Oprea it self. Oprea is getting the info in IE format which in it self it logic. I do not think that website should be force to format there web pages in to ever browers formates instead the broswer should be program to read the way the pages are be sent out.
Wrong dude. If you actually read it, and understood it, M$ is using the 'User-Agent' string in the head of the document. It's a javascript that redirects users based on Browser detection, IP or any number of things. In this case, it's redirecting users detected with an Opera browser to display a garbage CSS file, which in turn throws off the text in the HTML file to make it unreadable..and displays less content on the main MSN homepage.

That's very decieving for MSN to do..and they should be dealt with!!
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Post by DADINK13 »

x Wasted Mind x wrote:That's very decieving for MSN to do..and they should be dealt with!!
Yes...drastically.
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Post by DanMan2003 »

WE HATE M$ !!!!!!!!!
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Post by Anthony »

I say that nobody should have to have their pages work with every browser. The fact of the matter is IE is what most people use, and if they only want it to work with one browser they have that right. After all M$ is the one lossing the business.
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Post by fuuucckkers »

PhaseAMD wrote:I say that nobody should have to have their pages work with every browser. The fact of the matter is IE is what most people use, and if they only want it to work with one browser they have that right. After all M$ is the one lossing the business.
Are you insane?!?! That's the #1 rule of good Webpage Design! You must make your pages compatible with the most popular Browsers, and versions. (or at least try to).

But I do agree with the last statement. If they dont make it work with Opera users (mainly running Linux) .. it's M$ that's losing the business.
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Post by Anthony »

x Wasted Mind x wrote:
PhaseAMD wrote:I say that nobody should have to have their pages work with every browser. The fact of the matter is IE is what most people use, and if they only want it to work with one browser they have that right. After all M$ is the one lossing the business.
Are you insane?!?! That's the #1 rule of good Webpage Design! You must make your pages compatible with the most popular Browsers, and versions. (or at least try to).

But I do agree with the last statement. If they dont make it work with Opera users (mainly running Linux) .. it's M$ that's losing the business.
I'm not insane. M$ is.
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Post by harra »

PhaseAMD wrote:I'm not insane. M$ is.
I believe he was referring to the fact that you stated that Microsoft has the right "block" certain browsers from seeing their pages. Wasted was pointing out that the first rule of good Web Design is to ensure that every one of the commonly used browsers and versions can view a decent version of the page.

Granted it doesn't happen that way. I've been told it takes extra resources (i.e. programming time) to ensure each page is nice and pretty on different browsers. When I worked for Compaq I had a friend who worked for their web design team. They refused to be compatible with Netscape because they couldn't make the pages look the same on both IE and Netscape. This was a marketing thing. Marketing signs off on the pages.
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Post by Timelessblur »

harra wrote:
PhaseAMD wrote:I'm not insane. M$ is.
I believe he was referring to the fact that you stated that Microsoft has the right "block" certain browsers from seeing their pages. Wasted was pointing out that the first rule of good Web Design is to ensure that every one of the commonly used browsers and versions can view a decent version of the page.

Granted it doesn't happen that way. I've been told it takes extra resources (i.e. programming time) to ensure each page is nice and pretty on different browsers. When I worked for Compaq I had a friend who worked for their web design team. They refused to be compatible with Netscape because they couldn't make the pages look the same on both IE and Netscape. This was a marketing thing. Marketing signs off on the pages.
I agree but M$ has the right here to block browers from there web page if they want there not much that can legal be done about it since Micro soft owns the web page. but this also brings up a saying. The biggest Dog makes the rules
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Post by punkster103 »

The dog with the most money and lawers makes the rules.

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Post by Anthony »

Um... I bet M$ wishes that was true. Then they would not have to go through this anti trust stuff.
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Post by Michael »

DanHab2000 wrote:WE HATE M$ !!!!!!!!!
It's easy to say that, but of course, most people shout that at the top of their lungs, and then what do they buy? Windows. Actions speak louder than words, in my opinion...
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Post by punkster103 »

On a different note, I've used Opera before and it's really a great browser. M$ just tries to shut down everything that actually might get competition with them. :roll: :wink:
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